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Biggie, I'm very sorry to hear about this and I do hope that you're able to sort through it all. Losing trust in someone is the most difficult thing to handle (in my opinion) and it's disheartening when it happens to us because it on,y happens between people who had a relationship of some sort and trust is the absolute basis for a good relationship. Losing it is a terrible thing, and to lose it more than once is really sad and thought to deal with. I wish you the best with your family. Jen, you already know how I feel about you and your friendship and your family situation. You're always in my thoughts and prayers. I look to you as a really strong great person and I hope you know that. I admire your ability to keep your head above water during all this time. I know things will get better for you and I hope it's soon! Goodnight all and I hope everyone has a nice holiday season.

Biggie What Pat said ditto truly. Pat Thank you

Thanks Pat and Jen. Sorry to unload. Sometimes it's frustrating to come on and see people upset. It'll be ok. Extra prayers for everyone. I love you, guys.

I have to remember that laughter deflates stress better than anger .

Biggie -- No problem with you sharing a bit of your life with us -- no need for you to apologize at all. If anything, it's these things that we share about ourselves that helps us to really get to know each other and truly get to understand each other -- in our best and worst moods, in our happy and sad times. It's what I have always enjoyed about this place in the past (aside from the main reason -- PG, of course ). I'll keep you and all in my prayers -- we can always use a little extra can't we? So, let's keep hoping for the best. I love so many of the people here and so many I have gotten to know personally over many years and I am glad to have spent time with them. I enjoy people, I enjoy learning about people and their lives. I am a very good person -- and I am so proud of who I am. At the same time, I am extremely hurt by people who judge me without knowing a single thing about me. I know I shouldn't be hurt by complete strangers, yet I am because it's so much easier to love and get along than it is to be angry. I hope that you can begin to have more smiles than tears and I wish you a good year -- perhaps 13 will be a lucky one for us all. (Although, I must admit -- I've had a most excellent year and cannot complain about any of it).

Big sorry to hear of all your families problems. Hope you can find the right programs to help both of them. They are out there, you only need to look. From there it's up to them. Best of luck, especially with your daughter. And yeah, my life has been all peaches and cream. However, it is the choices we make, the hardest part is accepting that and making better ones. Sure, there are some people born into easier choices by birth, but even that is no guarantee. Some choices work out better then others, but choices they are, whether we want to accept them or not. This young lady is beating the odds as we know them. http://www.wgntv.com/news/wgntv-students-from-englewood-winnetka-named-rhodes-scholars-20121118,0,4924145.story Englewood is where one our delivery drivers was shot in the back, but thankfully not killed a few years ago.

Thanks Zen. My daughter seems to be grabbing a clue, but after 21 years my husband still thinks he has not done anything wrong. It's gotten kinda creepy, really. Time for something new.

And I'm afraid the programs are extremely expensive.

There are some non profit drug/alcohol programs out there but they are a waste of time if he does not admit that he's got a problem.

Trying is never a waste of time. I know one person who had to go to one of those programs for alcohol or lose his job. He went with the attitude that he wouldn't learn anything. He came back realizing he had a very real problem. Can't say that will happen for your husband, can only hope that can happen for your daughter. If nothing else, will let you know where you stand in your relationship with your husband. Doing nothing will change nothing. Here's hoping.

Of course, that said, I'm not sure if trying to change my avatar from time to time is persistence or a lesson in futility.

My daughter is realizing she has a problem, thank god. Since she can't do any more stuff because of the pregnancy her head is clearing. I have gotten my husband to go to AA in the past. The AA around here is pretty bad. It's full of court ordered Meth addicts that are generally just using it to hook-up with others who use. I guess he realizes he has a problem, but he's awfully busy feeling sorry for himself and has to drink to feel better- you know the drill. The Meth he supposedly quit in 1995, when I "caught" him. I lived with him on it for 3 years before I did. Some people can acctually function on the stuff. They call themselves "maintenence users". But I have seen too much weird behavior off and on to believe he hasn't done it, but he won't admit it. After 21 years I'm tired of babysitting. I'm to the knock it off or I'll divorce you stage, which I should have gotten to long ago. I also decided a few years ago that I wasn't going to let him get to me and bring me down anymore. Time to quit spinning my wheels along with him.

I caught him in some other lies recently, which acctually gives me some leverage because obiously if there's one lie there's more, so I'm trying to use it to my advantage to get the truth out of him. I have told him however that the kids' Christmas is not going to be ruined because of his stupidity.

Zen, isn't the definition of "crazy" doing the same thing over and over expecting a different result

And just FYI- I told him years ago he can't drink at the house or around the kids. So he sits and drinks at work, (the owner lives in Portland), or goes and stays with friends so he can party. Pretty pathetic. His whole family is like that though. His parents got divorced and his father died an alchoholic. His brothers have never been married or been able to keep a relationship. His mother is just plain weird.

Events of this morning make our problems seem very small -

Actually, that's the definition of futility. Crazy is owning horses when there is no real practical reason to do so, but yet there are barns full of us crazy horse people. What can I say, I'm not so sensitive about the crazy word. Had a bloke across the pond used to call me Crazy Lady, yet I am still mostly harmless.

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results Albert Einstein maybe horse people are a special kind of crazy like cat people - I bet I end up one of those old crazy ladies with 100 cats - I die and they feast

Sorry for the multiple posts, I'm on prednizone for a few days which makes me a bit hyper - and that is totally against my nature - I'm built for comfort, not speed ) at least I'm getting the apartment cleaned up Last year when I was taking prednizone for a bad asthma attack I got irritable and yelled at my ex - I don't yell at people, I just hold grudges When I get upset I internalize it and get ulcers or depression - so anywho - one more day and I shall be back to myself, and shall try to control my postings before the Peter Gabriel Forum Police (PGFP) start in on me thank you for your patience -

Here's a picture of a friend's horse Day. He paints (with the paint brush in his mouth) and Sandy sells the paintings then donates all the profits to horse rescue charities https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/148677_10151199825293207_2044984563_n.jpg