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This is really stupid, it's like comparing apples with oranges. I like PG's music, I like some of PC's music, but most people tent to like PC. There are also many artists I like more than PG, but those are other genres. Just like PG and PC are. And if you don't like someone's music he's a tool? That's true logic .

Hey Stanley! Sorry. . . i don`t know whats your Language. . . but i think my writing is somehow understandable!?!? Anyway: Its all a question of taste. . . and NOT THAT serious to confuse you. If it DID: Sorry again! Greetz, Rayray

you know a lot of people bash Phil Collins, saying he ruined Genesis. I mean yes Genesis was more famous after Peter left as it was more commercial and more well known. I don't chose one over the other-because they're quite different. I don't think just because you dislike his music you can call him names. Like it or not he is very talented at what he does (or he wouldn't have made it on the radio-back when getting on the radio actually meant something).

When did getting on the radio actually mean something???? :-]

NO, NO: nobody said Mr. C "ruined" Genesis. I don`t even bash him! Brand X is coolest Jazz-Rock with an excellent Drummer. Like this Boy in "The Matrix" said: "There IS NO Spoon!" There ARE NO Genesis! Its SO simple: This Band DIED. . . like a Human simply can die in a Careccident. . .when PG left them. There IS NO Cult around PGs Parting! Its simply. . . the TRUTH! And about so called "Success" of this so called "Genesis": I saw this Band that calles themselfs Genesis actually in 2007: They really HAVE (questionable) Success. . . 80% was Clerks n`Softies well dressed in Fashion. . .just able to hold a Cigarette-Lighter (They read somewhere that one should do so), but never knew what a "HOGWEED" is, or. . . "who selled England by WHAT???" "Let the Children play" Yusuf Islam once sang (and even HE (Mr. Cat Stevens)understood that one CAN´T go on with the SAME Name, when CHANGING a Lot!) So. LET them play. . . but pleeeease Mr. Banks, Mr. C, Mr. Rutherford. . . call yourself Nemesis or what. Then rest in Peace and feed the ABBA-People with "Who dunnits" and other sh*t! Amen

Exodus it is!!

What's REALLY lame is calling someone a tOOl! I think I first heard that in Grade 7. IS it a veiled reference to anatomy? And if SO, what's wrong with that?

Even if i am NOT english, i would like to interpret this Term as follows: A Band who plays instrumental could only be recognized if (lets say) their Guitarrist is SO extraordinary, that you`ll identify him with the first Note. A Band with a SINGER. . .CAN be identified by its Singers Voice, IF. . . its exraordinary and unique. Now. . . Mr. C comes in. Since the Duet "More tool me" (Ähm, sorry. . . "More fool me") we all KNOW that there is a similarity with those Voices. THAT was the Main Luck for this Musicians. For the first time after the Split a lot of Fans mixed n`melted their Memories and actual Listening with this similarity. And: It worked! For a while! Like i often mentioned: Trick and Wind was good Albums. But what came then had nothing to do with a Band who created "Selling England" (for Example). The Term "TOOL" (correct me Lily, if i`m wrong) should say: This similarity could be used to a red Line (The TOOL) back to the old days. That was Mr. Cs Bonus! But. . . the real Magic was gone in that Moment, when this Band became the british Version of swedish ABBA.When they wrote Pop-Trash. . . NOT ICONS! This Voice really became a "Tool" that had the Function to suggest the not sooo critical Listener that here was Genesis playing. Before you crucify me now: This is simply RAYRAYs OWN Interpretation of Lily`s Term. And: Its OK like this! Cause. . . an intelligent Fanclub should be able to critizise! No one gave bad names to Mr.C! After all: The Band is and was always british! The british Black Humour is very famous! So. . .Lily gave the Hitpoint for an interessting Discussion. I agree with her, as far as MY Interpretation of the Term was explained here (with a bad english, i must admit!) Btw: Has someone ever asked him/herself WHY Mr. Hackett leaved this Group???? HIS Guitar WAS THAT extraordinary (like PGs Voice), that Mr. Stuermer NEVER reached that Expression. . . even if he played Note ny Note what Mr. Hackett created. A very good Example that not the SKILL is the Master of Emotion. . . its the Magic the Guitarrist gives Birth to. . . deep out of his Soul. Mr. Stuermer IS a good Guitarrist, SURE! But. . . he unfortunately has to carry the burden to play Coverversions all his Life. Rayray

Btw, another strange thing. Everyone hails the Gabriel era because of Gabriel, but Hackett wrote the most music. I think he was the creative force behind those years. But that's besides the discussion.

"But that's besides the discussion." YES Toob. . . you`re right! and. . . somehow NOT! Your statement gives it ANOTHER Point that proofs: Even if it was PG OR Mr. Stephen Richard Hackett. . .THEIR Era was T.H.E. Era!!!! Where those Pieces was created that lasts more than a Lifetime. Can one say that from "SuSuSudio" or "WhoDunnit"? http://www.stevehackett.com/

For me there are 4 Genesisis (Genesi?) 1. Pre-Genesis: Gabriel, Banks, Rutherford, Phillips and drummer Mick Shrimpton. I have the music (somewhere) from this version of the group, but aside from parts of "Trespass", I don't find it very interesting. 2. Genesis: Gabriel, Banks, Rutherford, Hackett & Collins. This is the "REAL" Genesis. Nursery Cryme through Lamb. Nuthin' better. 3. Re-Genesis: Collins, Banks, Rutherford, Hackett & Bruford/Thompson. "Trick Of The Tail", "Wind & Wuthering", "Seconds Out". It has been reported that some of the music was "in progress" while Peter was still around (maybe?) and the performances still rely heavily on "Genesis" (see 2. above) music. Phil does a fine job singing and fronting the band during this short time. I like Re-Genesis a lot. 4. De-Genesis: Collins, Banks, Rutherford and whoever. From "?And Then There Were Three?" and onward. Any influence that might have been lingering around from PG has evaporated and Steve has now split too. Phil, Tony & Mike (Phil was not alone here, the other two are just as responsible) are now in a position to guide "the band" away from it's prog-rock roots towards massive rock act success. I can't blame them. I believe they sincerely like the direction they went and it worked out splendidly (for them). They were not my "cup of tea" anymore, but I'm obviously not in the majority when it comes to musical tastes (thank gawd). I'm not angry about their success and I don't feel "cheated". After all I still had Peter's solo career AND Brand X (and some really good solo work from Phil too). I'm just really thankful for the great Genesis music I have, and can't justify "missing" music that never was. Genesis was not the first or last group to make some music that defines a certain place and time in my life and then fell out of favor (Elvis Costello comes to mind here) for various reasons.

I bet T-Dogg will get the Mick Shrimpton reference?

Toob: no, Steve Hackett did not write "most of the music". He wrote most of 'Can-Utility', 'After the Ordeal' and, if I remember correctly, 'Cuckoo Cocoon' (just the music for this one). Banks and Rutherford (and Gabriel) were the creative force behind the music: Hackett and Collins were *just* excellent musicians at the time. Of course, Gabriel was also the brain, the heart and the 'raison d'être' of the band which, without him, simply does not exist.

Me thinks that some of you good people need to work on your sense of humor. And to Vampire Lily, if they can't take a joke, f them I say. :-]

I happen to like the word Tool. Tool works.

Great band, but their last album sucks :-]

Finally, dear Vampire, I think you don't understand the ironic and funny behavior of Phil Collins: an easy (i don't it's correct in english, i'd like to say "simple" man. Say hello to chocolate, clocks and banks full of money, from the pizza, spaghetti and mandolino, country

.i don't know, if it is.

Thanks, Phaedrus i think that's a philosophy i can truely grasp on to :-] LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

Time to strap on some Phil, uhh, slap on, sorry.