Joey Chive2 April 2009 at 2:13amPosts: 180 (0 today)Status: offline
Christ died for sinners, of which I am chief.
NeedyGreedy2 April 2009 at 2:16amPosts: 105 (0 today)Status: offline
Miracles. I have seen them, experienced them with my own eyes and perceptions. I do not doubt that Jesus rose from the dead. Neither do I doubt that others may well have performed miracles over time.
The issue for me, is not who performed them, who transcended their material existence and was an Avatar (God in flesh) but that miracles are possible, and that therefore, our capabilities lie outside what is known- both to ourselves and to society or science.
There is a problem of course, with miracles. How does one know if a miracle is performed that it is an act of divine origin or as some fundamentalist Christians believe, an act of deception which must be feared.
To this I say, only one who knows the character of God can judge. The heart knows whether something comes from God or elsewhere. To know this, one must have established personal relationship with God and His Universe. And I think this ability is itself a gift that only comes with the loss of the terror of death.
I sense that we have come to the end of this thread. I wish you all well and the Hope of a Sacred World where Miracles are possible, and may not have to be feared as being deceptions, but as proof of the Infinite Love of the Universal Mind for all humans, no matter how puny and insignificant or sinful.
Joey Chive2 April 2009 at 2:24amPosts: 180 (0 today)Status: offline
One last thing. The resurrection isn't just some miracle. It's our eternal life if we believe the gospel that Jesus gave to Paul. Read the letters of Paul and see that Jesus is unique.
Joey Chive2 April 2009 at 2:31amPosts: 180 (0 today)Status: offline
Bye Needy Greedy. We are all needy. Let us be greedy for the forgiveness found in the cross.
Synnie2 April 2009 at 2:34amPosts: 4169 (0 today)Status: offline
Others see it differently, and others also made their experiences, much older ones even. Did you ever consider this, Joey, and a bit more humble, maybe?
Your arrogance is astounding.
Joey Chive2 April 2009 at 3:13amPosts: 180 (0 today)Status: offline
Hi Synnie, Glad to see you. About older experiences, Jesus was the Lamb that was slain before the foundation of the world. He was right there in the beginning when God told Adam and Eve that the snake would bruise His heel, (The Cross) but the Promised One would crush Satan's head. ( The Resurrection )Nothing is before Jesus, Synnie. Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever. I know the world admits to the greatnes of Jesus by starting the years from His birth. But Jesus is before His birth. He came from the Father.
NeedyGreedy2 April 2009 at 3:26amPosts: 105 (0 today)Status: offline
The believer's yoke is to grapple with the possibility that their beliefs may not be true. The yoke of the unbeliever is to grapple with the possibility that their skepticism may be not completely valid.
So we all take upon ourselves various yokes in our lives and drag them around with us.
That is the fate of monekyrodents. Including me.
"Watch the monkey(rodent) get hurt!"
"Fear is the mother of violence". Amen.
"Quick to judge
Quick to anger
Slow to understand
Ignorance and prejudice and fear walk hand-in-hand" -Rush " Witch Hunt" from Moving Pictures
Synnie2 April 2009 at 12:05pmPosts: 4169 (0 today)Status: offline
One should always include the unexpected, unknown), as my father once rightly said .
Joey, Satan is a concept of your head, so is the rest of the paradise story, as manipulated by the church, rewritten many times for purposes, (not all good at all. For instance, to create dependencies and get money-support). You gotta find out about its origin, sources and the history at that time it was written. It changed many times.
If you fear Satan, he will appear. If you don't, "he" will have no power over you and dissappear as such or/and change.
Some dreamworkers in Borneo say, if something (expected to be) dark is following, you should turn round and face it. It then may become your friend. . .
I once wrote this to Peter, just because I remembered, and to insure him. We had no such problems, he also encouraged me, when I needed help. And not only me, as you all know. But I would do the same, my way. But facing fears is one important way, to get rid of them.
As long as you need Jesus to do this for you (and you clearly do), it may be understandable, but you may grow up from any crutch (as Peter did) and see it for what it is.
You need no one to tell you, that the sun is the sun, all by itself, and all around the globe and for free. . .but also, too much sun may burn you. In that case, the very same may be dangerous. Nature simply is.
We have night and day, and all around the globe too, and both has its place in given time. Thats why the Ying-Yang, for instance.
Fearlessness is one of Peter's goals as well, for long (He was said to be very shy first, thus knows, what he is talking about). It may be just the fear of something, one does not yet know. One always fears the unknown first. Give others a listen too, face it, so to say, exchange about it, and you will see.
Let IT be, in its manifold faces, not just one.
Joey Chive2 April 2009 at 2:43pmPosts: 180 (0 today)Status: offline
Thanks for your concern for me. I felt it in your post. I believe that Satan is real. However, I'm not afaid of him. Remember Jesus crushed His head. If I believe that Jesus died for my sins, I do not have to worry about Satan. Faith in Jesus scares Satan. The doctrine of Satan comes from the bible, not the RC church. You believe in many things Synnie, many strange and farfetched things. Why is Satan so unbelievable? Maybe you are afraid of him? You should be, without Jesus. Satan will sift you as wheat with out Jesus! When you told Peter that there was no real Devil, the Devil was speaking through you. I told you this before. Jesus will take care of your demon problem if you trust in His Gospel. It's easy so do it.
NeedyGreedy2 April 2009 at 4:36pmPosts: 105 (0 today)Status: offline
My God, Joey. Everyone should fear Satanic influence. Even Christians - especially Christians. For is it not one of the greatest power of Satanic influence, to turn good things into evil through deception and illusion?
"He who hunts dragons too long, himself becomes a dragon." - Confucious
"There is no greater ugliness, than beauty corrupted." Anonymous
"When you beleive the battle has been won,
It is then that it has only just begun." - Christian Doctrine
As far as I can determine, Christian doctrine is not a snapshot that is fixed and unchanging, but a dynamic process. Taking in information and then interacting with the external Universe. Breathing in and then breathing out.
The neutral path of reflection and contemplation without judgement, is often the Holy Path. What businesspeople call a "wait-and-see posture".It allows the Unconsious to work for us. By this method, anything that can be known is revealed.
Those of us who are primarily extroverted must learn to become to some extent functionally introverted, and vice versa. That is the way of mysticism. The Way of Heaven is balance. Not too hot and not too cold but JUST RIGHT!
I have been taught that the way of wisdom is not to strive to hold all of the answers, but to be able to pose the next pertinent question.
One of the most difficult lessons that I have learned is that there is no totally safe place on the Path. All that we have worked for all of our lives may be lost in an instant if we do not take care to follow Grace rather than our egos. Through pondering this is achieved.
There is a vast difference between being fearful and being terrified. Animals can experience mindless, all-consuming terror, for they don't have the capacity for cortex-thought, to reason their way out of danger and great fear.
God gave us the ability to reason and to forsake this is to disfigure the soul.
I'm not certain(how can anyone be certain of such a thing?) but I think perhaps there is no Satan or Hell as fundamentalist doctrine teaches. That being said, there is evidence that the effects of psychotic detachment from reality are identical to the effects of evil that might just as well have sprung directly from the mind of Satan.
One of the hallmarks of schizophrenics is that they are not happy, fucntional people, but instead beset by massive, often overwhelming fears and terrors which wreck their lives with anxiety, mistrust and instability.
"There are always hidden silences
Waiting behind the chairs
They come out when the coast is clear.
They eat anything that moves
I go shaky in the kness
Lights go out,
Stars come down
Like a swarm of bees" - PG - No Self Control
Hearing that lyric led the late Ahmet Ertegun, then head of the record company handling Peter's career at the time, to ask one of his assistants, "Goodness!! Does Peter need to be hospitalized"?
Carl Swedenborg, who believed that he communicated with angels, said that they told him that Hell per se, as described in many myths, did not actually exist and that therefore it was not necessary to be terrified of Hell. They did not tell him not to fear evil, just not to be terrfied of Hell.
Rather, he said that he was told that illusion is the mechanism by which people come to be trapped in their own private Hells and that God, (which he believed does exist) offers the escape-mechanism from these illusions which convince people that there is a Hell and effectively lock them into a destructive mind set witht that fear as the apriori basis.
This is not to say that there is not great risk inherent in life and that a seriousness-of-mind is not called for by adults. Maybe we are all more like high-wire acts balancing and trying to keep from falling as we traverse the span.
King Crimson's "Great Deceiver" may be a good musical representation of this.
"Health food faggot
With a bartered bride
Likes to comb his hair
With a dipper ride
Once had a friend
With a cloven foot
Once he called the tune
In a checkered suit. " The Great Deceiver from "Starless and Bible Black".
And there is also, the magnificent lyrics of Jim Morrison (before he lost his mind from drug abuse and egocentrism):
"No Eternal Reward will forgive us now for forsaking the dawn. " from "The End"
Synnie3 April 2009 at 1:02amPosts: 4169 (0 today)Status: offline
Joey, as long as you believe in Satan to be real, you are in his grips, lol.
I do not fear "him"(lol) at all.
Why should I believe in him then?
If you don't fear it, you do not have it around anymore. "He" feeds on fear, he also spreads fear.
And who does, is one in the classical sense.
A Satan mind is just a word for darkness in (in terms of limited, blind) mind, and the fear to face and this way enlighten it, and thats all. While others already laugh about you. So should you.
Darkness - PG
Hear particularly the end and for "heaven's " sake, start laughing until you cry, also about yourself.
And only then you are saved/free.
Aehm, what was it, you wanted to teach Peter?
Joey Chive3 April 2009 at 2:36amPosts: 180 (0 today)Status: offline
And so we dance.
Joey Chive3 April 2009 at 3:01amPosts: 180 (0 today)Status: offline
If you do not believe what Moses wrote, e.g. creation, Adam and Eve, Jesus the Promised One, the existence of Satan., how will you believe what Jesus said? ( the book of John )
Synnie3 April 2009 at 3:13amPosts: 4169 (0 today)Status: offline
I just learned to trust my own dreams and they have other actors for the same game, and they are fresh!
And so far, they were surprisingly right, even for and about others. Peter can tell you quite some stories about this. Also about his.