petergabriel.com

bumpty dumpty displaced a troll

You are such a sweetheart!

Hey, look who's talkin'.wait.did you hear that?

But don't be too busy, yet, some really ought to listen to EVERYTHING, that Peter sings and says. And thats surely not about taking "sides", misinterpreting or ignoring other cultures. . .or meditation or the like. I wonder, if some wish to talk him even out of WOMAD or cooperating with Youssou etc., because that would be their consequence, but definitely not Peters. May they finally wake up and understand the manifestations of images, which is, what allows you unfanatical (!!) and unlimited cooperations with all, not just one. "Manifold" goes all around the world, under many names and with many stories. And any one is right, not only one. So, why fighting and building barriers for just one? That only says, that those cannot see very far. But the world is round, always was. Think round.

I actually found a video yesterday, from creationists, who clearly say, that they are the ones, this planet is exceptionally made for, lol, and who does not wish to live on their spaceship (under obvious rule), has to leave this ship. How does this sound in your ears, friends?. . . . Thats plain wardriving in our ears here, not just mine. If I find it again, I will give the link, it was one of the main videos from them.

I think it's possible that their being non-rational may bhe defining feature of their psyche, rather than the fact that it is expressed in fundamentalist religionist philosopy. There are so many non-rational doctrines (extroverted irrational personality types in the Jungian system) who all share the demand that all must knock reason and logic off of the first priority in consideration and substitute instead some impression that is derived from either a doctrine which must be accepted as by decreee or edict alone, or other emotion-centered belief-system which holds reason and logic in subordinate positions to these impressions. Rabid atheism or Marxism, or any of a thousand other brands of fanatical activism on behalf of some Over Arching All-Important Truth, are no less prone to this type of non-reasoning as the prime source of doctrinal criteria. They all share the aspect of being primarily non-rational. All are rather, almost purely emotional or "intuitive" (unconsciously sourced) when they establish their "validity". Any truly valid doctrine may in my own estimation be validated by consistent logic and reason. If at any time, an advocate cannot answer simple, calm, direct questions about, "Why must this be so?" in regard to the issue of their's being the ONLY ACCEPTIBLE DOCTRINE OR BELIEF, it cannot be legitimate, valid or of God. Creationists are but one species of an Order.

Yes, true, and even amongst so-called rationals I experienced pretty much the same, btw. Some lacked essential sensory experiences even and were ready to deny any according latest discoveries, even the use of according available and common use instruments, which made me even more wonder. Byproduct, extreme agressions, uncontrol of them, with better words. You cannot drive a car, that you don't know, even deny, for instance. It seems to be an overload of/on either side to me, unbalanced and somewhat very fearfull people, so to say. Any which way round. (And I like Peter's way of confronting fears, thats the way out, and any good psychologist or therapist does the same. And then even bipolar is a great chance all on a sudden) And that can have many reasons, society made(!) as well as a lack in their simple own body household. Or the later because of the first or the other way round. Many of them were clearly in danger of either suicide or even murder, others were definitely in a certain age (midlife crisis for instance), sometimes clearly in front of a stroke. I can almost forsee this by now as a result of an inner conflict, that they deny to see or work upon. In all cases, there was a limited and ignorant sight, be it via being untrained nor ever having learned this balance or via been told, that is is unmanly or the like. In the later case, a religion often in fact can be blamed, because it also seems to be more present in one culture than in others. I personally have very clear and repeatedly according experiences, which made me wonder and start to research very early, with interesting results, actually. Yet some find the way out, and those are definitely willing to cope, be it after a bad experience like a stroke or other bad things, that happened to them, like their own mirrors of their state. Anyhow, they learned their lesson the hard way, if not before the soft way. And those were amazingly openmimded then, and often come to a very high age and according wisdom. While others go berserk or give up early. And those who are about to go berserk, are to be feared indeed. Except(!) one shows no fear and stays calm, which puzzles any agressor in the end (the principle of Aikido, actually, which to me still is a wonderfull lesson, particularly about how to keep the still center, which is very similar to some sufi dances, actually, also to old hindu images). There is a point, where any agression falls back onto the agressor. And a point, where you can lead such agressions to ritual explosions, as some buddhists do via a certain Goma>fireceremony, which is said to be the shortcut to enlightening, and as I attended, I figured, rightly so. Not that I had it then, but I knew, what they were up to. It was familiar, most familiar even. They knew what they did there (I was invited to join after we had some wonderfull talks, like amongst very old friends). Nothing but a kind of spiritual sauna bath, so to say, but very well done. Close to old shamanistic knowledge and partly coming from there, as I read later on. It all made sense, all the sense in the world, like I found in many other places too. But whoever shies away from even certain according questions or suggestions, and then warnings, should be taken with care. All you can do then, if from distance, is waiting, until they run into their own conflict/inner wall. Because they do. It is no one else causing this but they themselves. Which they do not believe until it happens. There is a slightly hard but true word from the sufis: If you do not take care of reality, reality takes care about(of?) you (sorry about my bad english, but you may understand) Which can very well be as good as desastrous, but one cannot bypass it. We both use different words, NG, but I think, not so different views. I still am sure, most things are more a question of translation, in which I give everyone their own way. But I also want my own way. I do sign your last sentences easily by the way I understand them. Thanks for this.

Synnie wrote : ?Yes, true, and even amongst so-called rationals I experienced pretty much the same, btw.? NG wrote : Well, there is ?rational? thinking and ??non-rational (emotion-based) thinking?which although intellectual, is not really all that rational. Being rational also includes consideration of empirical (experiential) information as part of ?acceptable? data. Experience is often a perfectly valid rational criterion, even though it is not per se ?100% objective information? and may even be second or third-hand. There are ?intellectual? types who don?t accept anything but rigid objective facts, yet still are not really very rational even though they use objective or scientific information, because they use this factual data inductively ( to support a priori conclusions) rather than deductively ( to support conclusions which emerge from the total sum of all pertinent evidence). Some discount any information that does not match their template, which is then not a rational decision per se because the data is not comprehensive but rather, highly selective. When valid pertinent information such as experience is excluded, the person is no longer being wholly ?rational?. A rational person?s opinion will rightly change according to new information. Even an intellectually inclined person will still often ignore much pertinent rational information and use their emotions as the primary center of the thinking process. That makes them primarily an irrational personality type, even though they may use certain selective factual criteria to support their opinions or decisions. Synnie wrote : ?Some lacked essential sensory experiences even and were ready to deny any according latest discoveries, even the use of according available and common use instruments, which made me even more wonder. Byproduct, extreme agressions, uncontrol of them, with better words.? NG wrote : Indeed that is true! ?Still a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest la la la la la la la ? from ?The Boxer? by Simon and Garfunkle (from the sound track from feature film, The Graduate) Synnie wrote : ?In all cases, there was a limited and ignorant sight, be it via being untrained nor ever having learned this balance or via been told, that is is unmanly or the like. In the later case, a religion often in fact can be blamed, because it also seems to be more present in one culture than in others.? NG wrote : That makes me think of what Carlos Castaneda wrote about the Dark Sorcerers. He said that the brujo Don Juan Mateus his guru, said, ?the Dark (evil) Sorcerers are the ones who will not allow experimentation or exploration of other approaches to Knowledge.? Maybe that says it all. I have observed that living things are generally not wooden, immovable, rigid nor fixed like stone or steel, but inherently flexible adaptive and resilient. I suspect that the same might be seen in doctrines that reflect the reality of living things and of Universal Truths. If something is true, it will stand up to scrutiny or challenge and no advocate of any great Truth need fear that it will be unable to sustain itself against other doctrines or beliefs. Fear of allowing freedom of thought may as close to true evil as life gets. Discipline is one thing, but demanding blind adherence to doctrine with no room for rational explanation or any new information allowed is another entirely. Synnie wrote : Yet some find the way out, and those are definitely willing to cope, be it after a bad experience like a stroke or other bad things, that happened to them, like their own mirrors of their state. Anyhow, they learned their lesson the hard way, if not before the soft way. And those were amazingly open minded then, and often come to a very high age and according wisdom. While others go berserk or give up early. NG wrote : Yes, studies with people who have lived through serious psychological or spiritual crises tend to support this. The old saying about that which does not destroy us makes us stronger may e true to a large extent. Often people who have suffered greatly and come near the brink of ultimate despair often do go on to become high achievers for some reason. Though those achievements may not always be in purely conventional avenues such as making huge amounts of money and such. Success in this sense may be closer to the definition of Dr. Abraham Maslow of ?Self Actualization? (true happiness). Synnie wrote : And those who are about to go berserk, are to be feared indeed. Except(!) one shows no fear and stays calm, which puzzles any aggressor in the end (the principle of Aikido, actually, which to me still is a wonderful lesson, particularly about how to keep the still center, which is very similar to some Sufi dances, actually, also to old Hindu images). There is a point, where any aggression falls back onto the aggressor. NG wrote: Hah! I loved the way you expressed yourself in the first sentence of this paragraph. Fear of people about to go berserk may indeed be the very epitome of sanity. The other points you raise here make me think of the classic old T.V. show Kung Fu with David Carradine. His character was often able to use their own aggressive tendencies of his violent adversaries against them. Synnie wrote : But whoever shies away from even certain according questions or suggestions, and then warnings, should be taken with care. All you can do then, if from distance, is waiting, until they run into their own conflict/inner wall. Because they do. It is no one else causing this but they themselves. Which they do not believe until it happens. There is a slightly hard but true word from the sufis: If you do not take care of reality, reality takes care about(of?) you (sorry about my bad english, but you may understand) Which can very well be as good as disastrous, but one cannot bypass it. NG wrote : Nicely said. Very nice indeed! A Westernized version might be ; ?Either you control the facts, or they will control you?. That is a truism concerning the attitude one take about the greater course of one?s life. It concerns the value of endeavoring to be a champion rather than a victim of circumstances. Synnie wrote: We both use different words, NG, but I think, not so different views. I still am sure, most things are more a question of translation, in which I give everyone their own way. But I also want my own way. I do sign your last sentences easily by the way I understand them. Thanks for this. NG wrote : And THANK YOU ! Fellowship is happening here I think. Isn? t this very nice? I think your teachers would be proud of who well you have listened to them. Wisdom speaks though YOU now.

And through you, dear friend. You are so patient and diligent in answering, that it makes me happy, and a bit humble, because I cannot use the english language the way you can. I only try my best after all. I love your examples and sign them all with full heart. they are a pleasure to read, most of them I know, some you filled up, thanks. I often wish, we would have a more advanced Forum, technically, I mean. I see, you are also used to the other ones, the way, you respond. Many people here do not even know these. But its alright. It also has its good sides. Hardly anything dissappears (and if so, it is serious and a clear warning!) and thus can be traced back with according goodwill. If that goodwill is not there, I know, they wish to be spoonfed or pampered, which I am not doing for long, at least. But they provable cannot say, it was not said. You thus can see quite well, who is clearly just ignorant or tries to play dishonest games or turns things upside down, which never lasts forever. You can compair older writings with actual ones and get the picture quite clearly thus. Thus any manipulations/projections break after a while anyhow. Yes, as you say, the Dark Sorcerers, indeed. But as said, they fall into their own traps in the end, even if they wear bright masks (or some black masks are glued on to them in the end, another story). That does not help much, and can be looked through, like the wolf with manipulated voice in Rotkäppchen (little red riding hood). We say in Germany: "Wer anderen eine Grube gräbt, fällt selbst hinein". Who is digging a (trap)hole for someone, is falling into that one him/herself. And who does not hear the warning, that this bridge is no bridge, will fail to cross, by falling. . .particularly, if that ignorant one insist in knowing better. There is one thing about Peter, he suggests "listening" ("Signal to noise" is a good example), and does himself, even if not on stage, but outside, yes. . .he may be puzzled by certain things, but he always respected and tried. Most people do not know, that he can be VERY patient in this. But if he then has another opinion, experience, he also will be listened to. Thats at least my experience. But I hold it up high. And if someone offends this, I am standing up, and if it does not help, I wait it out. I owe him this in old friendship. (My sister laughs: you and your children, ah well, that her way of looking at his, but its not all wrong. btw., I have a daughter with partly similar buffalo qualities, she is doing things her way, but she does, and she loves Peter, since they met privately, as someone who took her seriously and helped her to learn something new and integrate her into the family circle right away. Her memories about this are even better than mine, even if she is into different music and no fan as such, but she has high and warm respect for him, as a human) Holding up truth thus is relatively easy here, even if full of challenges, but right, "what does not kill you, makes you strong". Life is an endless learning proceedure. Btw, I think, I am mostly a Daoist after all. Money means little to me thus, but thats my way after all. . .The buddhist know this as the crystal path, as I learned much later on. No coincidence in my opinion. One aspect is, be as honest as you can, also towards yourself, and it will all fall into place, be it for yourself, which again causes happiness, but with this one inside, you can pass it on to those who also listen (Of course, you can laugh too, if things are too obviously a fake). No particular religion needed. They can see it in your eyes, so to say. Animals can even smell it and will freely assemble, even run towards you, as much as they can smell fear or agression, in which case they will react the other way round (I take direct animal reactions very seriously, btw.) And thats easily provable, even scientifically. We have all we need to cope with our surroundings. We only have to be aware of this. Heaven is in your mind, you cannot buy it.

- bump -